Comments on: The Taxi Scenario

By: Eric Karjaluoto’s take on Taxi Scenario » Jessica Luch - Jessica Luch's Blog

Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:14:36 +0000

[...] great read from Eric Karjaluoto @ smashLab: http://www.ideasonideas.com/2009/11/the-taxi-scenario/ Posted in Uncategorized Cancel [...]

By: Karthik

Karthik — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:36:22 +0000

Eric,

Thanks once again for such a simple yet an amazing article rooted in reality. I couldn't have read this article at a more appropriate time than now. In the last few weeks, I have constantly questioned my dealings with the projects and the clients that I work for. A few days back, I had come to the same conclusion that you have in your article and I started following it. I was much more relaxed than before. It is an amazing coincidence that you have to outline the precise problem in your article and give a solution that's similar to mine. The only difference is you have given names - Type 1 and Type 2 (love it). Thanks for that too.

Keep these articles coming.

All the best.
Karthik

By: Steve Magruder

Steve Magruder — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:40:46 +0000

I am a web programmer/designer. I have found that most clients are a combination of Type 1 and Type 2 -- They will grant me design freedom for all the parts they don't understand (and even some parts they do but will defer to my professional judgment), but will also request specific visual things they expect to see. Most times these requests are within reason, or I can convince them to look at it differently and accept an alternative but equal approach insofar as satisfying their request. I have had also had some clients that were close to pure Type 2s. I honestly don't have a problem with these type of clients as long as their requests are "within design reason" and they aren't wishy-washy. In other words, they know what they want and what they want isn't whacked. :) Now, pure type 2 sites also happen to be the sites I feel less proud of, since they have a tendency to work against what I think of as optimal design. I won't be showing these sites off (that much). Of course, there are also the scattered type 2 clients who try to make me do something consistently unreasonable, or something that never seems to settle on a set approach. As doing these projects would tend to unravel my reputation, I generally don't take these projects, or continue them once I realize they are going in a downward spiral. I already have work I'm not proud of from years ago when I was green -- I don't want some of that same kind of work attached me at my current stage of considerably more advanced abilities. It's not worth the money I might make from them.

By: yael miller

yael miller — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:31:43 +0000

The hardest ones are Type 2's that say they're Type 1's. You know, the kind that says, "You're the expert. I trust you." when clearly they don't. And usually they are also in a rush, are still making changes close to press time and are unusually charming. These types can be a curse for those designers who have a hard time saying, "no", when they come knocking far enough down the line that you've already forgotten how tough they were to work with.

By: Jon

Jon — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:09:03 +0000

Nice. I needed this today.

By: yani

yani — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:34:36 +0000

I seem to work only with type 2s :(

By: Markko

Markko — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:42:31 +0000

@Ivan: You have a good point there. Putting yourself in client's position gives you totally different perspective. Actually, I have tried it now for a year or so and it works well! Experts always recommend you more expensive products, that's for sure. But they work and you feel better after the purchase. What is different is that you have to do some home work and you have to plan your spending. So when I go to the expert, I already have a clear understanding of my needs and I am prepared to get best results.

The problem with clients is that many people treat design as "shopping". They don't plan, they act on emotion. They hate the cost and they like to choose even if it makes the decision harder to make.

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:45:11 +0000

Hi Ivan, I'm glad that you like my posts and I'm sorry that you felt this one too “whiny” in nature. Perhaps I've written this post poorly, and I should have done a better job; or, you've misread it. Either way, I'll take a moment to clarify. This post was informed by a couple of distinct experiences we've had over the past few months. One is on the extreme Type 1 end of things, and one is a Type 2 (both have been with us for many years). What’s notable is the correlation between the value we seem to afford, and how these different groups engage when they call us. This led me to look at other groups we've worked with. I was surprised to find that most quite clearly fell into one camp or the other. For a long time we fought Type 2s, believing that their overarching project objectives should take precedence over politicking or personal preferences. In most circumstances we found doing so to be rather futile. Some might be swayed, but those ones were in the minority. Ultimately, it came down to what they really perceived the process to be about. What I've tried to convey here--albeit perhaps poorly--is that there's little point to feeling badly or complaining about those I've classified as "Type 2s." My suggestion is that at a certain point, it's wise to simply identify what they're really looking for and act accordingly. And as for considering them "clueless jerks"? Those are your words--not mine. (Although yours are more colorful, I'd prefer to choose my own language, thanks.) Even in the situations we've found most challenging, the people have generally been nice. If we find it difficult to work with a particular client, I'd hardly think that reflected on their character or general decency. Cheers, Eric

By: Ivan Road

Ivan Road — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:15:30 +0000

Eric, I enjoy your posts, usually. But I think you're beginning to whine too much about unenlightened clients not appreciating your genius.

If they aren't buying, perhaps you shouldn't consider them dolts for not 'getting' it. It could be that you're trying to sell something that you think is swell, but they couldn't give a damn about. You haven't made a good case for the value of it.

Consider, too, that you, personally, are probably the consummate 'Type 2' customer for most of what YOU buy.

Do you drive around with the plain-old factory carburetor in your car? I know a mechanic who would think you a brainless fool for driving around with such a compromisesd, mass-produced, cheap-as-we-can-make-it piece of crap. You simply don't get it.

I'm guessing when you bought your last hot water heater, the plumber left your place mumbling about what a cheap-ass idiot you were for going with just the plain old crap that will be leaking in five years. "What a dolt. He just doesn't get it."

Did you take the professional, well-considered, experienced advice of an expert for everything you bought last year? And would you buy something you didn't 'like' just because the 'expert' said it was right?

I doubt it. I would bet you bought a load of stuff that the 'geniuses' would consider tripe.

If the clients aren't buying your stuff, maybe you're selling the wrong stuff, or selling to the wrong people.

It's arrogant to consider them clueless jerks.

Did you buy

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:33:13 +0000

When faced with the reality of a client you through to be a Type 1, actually operating as a Type 2, I agree that it's good on some level to resign yourself and finish the job.

However, I think the idea that this can be profitable needs a caveat. In my experience, the Type 2 clients are most likely to be the ones to head outside of the initial scope of a project. If your pricing was based on the initial scope, you need some kind of trigger or set of conditions in your agreement with *any* client that make sure you stay profitable when wide scope changes happen. If you do this up front, there is a greater likelihood that these kinds of clients can be profitable.

Of course, if you knew they were Type 2 from the beginning and took the job anyway, you hopefully have a price structure to account for this.