Comments on: Cucumber cake

By: Our Bookmarks: Feb 16 - Feb 22 | Border Crossing Media

Our Bookmarks: Feb 16 - Feb 22 | Border Crossing Media — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:36:50 +0000

[...] Cucumber Cake by Ideas on Ideas [...]

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:50:29 +0000

Glad to hear it has been useful--thanks for saying so Jamie!

By: jamie schwartzman

jamie schwartzman — Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:49:43 +0000

This is an amazing parable that resonates with what can happen when a client strong-arms the branding process based on half-baked ideas injected into the creative.

Thank you for this amazing tale. I tell it to every new client we work with.

By: Detrus

Detrus — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:40:51 +0000

That also stems from the process supposed designers use. They focus on traditional criteria such as making it "look good." It's like a mental itch that artistic people can't let go. Design is something that can't have such criteria. If a project requires making things ugly, then that should be done well.

The whole role of understanding the clients and projects needs for selling things has been taken over by advertising specialists who don't know how to make it look good, but they do know that no matter what it looks like it has to get the right reaction. Without these people reminding "designers" of the real criteria, designers often default to making it look good, or a style they're comfortable with.

By doing this they earn the mistrust of clients, who don't see them as thinkers, but as button pushers and air-brushers. People with such narrow talents always attracted supervision.

There is also an inherent problem that even problem solving, multitalented, communicative designers will fall into. Their craft is not a science, while it should obviously be a field of neuroscience.

Neuroscience is a bit more complicating that engineering a car, but if it was as well understood, people would have more trust in those practicing it. After all, you can only go so far without fully understanding the system you're working with. Once we do achieve such understanding, many fields like economics, politics, design, writing, and advertising will seem ridiculous in retrospect.

As long as our field is not a science and we don't make an effort to make it one, we will make plenty of stupid design decisions before our clients add their share.

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:45:19 +0000

Well said. :-)

At the same time, I feel that you've missed an important point here. Because design is visual, it's often perceived as something that everyone has an aptitude for. (Just like singing and telling good jokes.) As a result, even the strongest designers find themselves justifying choices and explaining things a great deal.

This, needless to say, can become tiresome. Think of how your mechanic would respond if you insisted that they fix your car with a bungee cable, as you once saw it on MacGyver, and as such are convinced it can be done like that.

By: Detrus

Detrus — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:08:00 +0000

The problem you describe seems to date back to the origins of human craftsmanship and specialist professions. The specialist, whether he was an artist, engineer, or architect always had trouble explaining his craft to his "client."

The client had trouble explaining what he really wanted as well, and had no way of verifying that his explanation of the project was understood. In the case of art or design, the two parties are trying to tell each other about complex neural patterns they personally experience when they see visuals. The language we use to describe such phenomenon is vague. To the artist it is often incomprehensible without visual examples.

A designer like Massimo Vignelli, while he was considered the best in the industry was constantly challenged by clients until his patience ran out. There is an inherent mistrust of specialists and I think it's justified. There is a demand on specialists to do well in multiple disciplines, not just the one they have the most experience with, but specialists often fail to deliver.

The words and explanations of a specialist can be compared to those of a teacher. The teacher can be very good at being a mathematician, but when it comes to teaching math, you need a different set of skills. You need a separate specialist to measure how much information is absorbed by students, and suggest different ways of breaking down this information to the mathematician teacher. Otherwise the mathematician will only hear from angry parents, complaining that their kids can't count their shoes, and that he should figure out why, since he's so good at math.

I think it's pointless to blame clients for not understanding a craft. The problem is craftsmen are not necessarily expert communicators. The ones that communicate better, while not being so good at their craft have a distinct advantage.

By: bg

bg — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:07:36 +0000

Surprised Jonathan didn’t throw him all the way under the bus and go with “This isn’t what we talked about.”

By: Ginger Conlon

Ginger Conlon — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:28:25 +0000

When it comes down to it, sometimes you just have to say no. There doesn't need to be a big, "keep your money" flourish. Just a simple "Thanks, but no thanks." Some customers just aren't right for your business. Period.

By: tmac

tmac — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:10:21 +0000

"My only suggestion is to trust your gut. I find that nice people can be reasoned with, and even if we don't agree, at least we'll understand what they're trying to achieve."

And, therein, lies the most important lesson.

Choose only "nice" clients. Just as clients generally want to avoid "enfant terribles" as creatives, we creatives do ourselves well to stay away from "jerk" clients.

People who are disrespectful, demanding, price grinders are easy to spot. They talk down and over you, make rigid demands, negotiate through underlings, criticize other vendors, and discuss creative (copywriting and design) as a commodity.

If you come across this kind of person, no amount of money will make it worth the pain. It's taken me several years to accept this. But my work is so much more fulfilling when I can talk through a strategy, messaging or design decision with my client.

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:46:02 +0000

I think so. We had one pop-up a year-and-a-half ago who ground us to the bone on price, complained that we weren't "keen" enough, and then finally hired us. We didn't think it would turn out well, but thought we could help them, so we took on the job. It turned out to be our most "bi-polar" client to date. One day we were great, and the next they deemed us shit. We're finally finished with that client, but (surprise, surprise) they don't like us very much. I don't have any steadfast advice on this point. My only suggestion is to trust your gut. I find that nice people can be reasoned with, and even if we don't agree, at least we'll understand what they're trying to achieve. In my mind it's a bit like dating. The ones who are "emotional rollercoasters" are really hard to work with. A special warning sign is if they talk about every past supplier being terrible, but feel that you're great. (The honeymoon rarely lasts.)