Comments on: The web, community, privacy and optimism

By: Cultural Cues 04.22.08 « The Errant Æsthete

Cultural Cues 04.22.08 « The Errant Æsthete — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:14:16 +0000

[...] The web, community, privacy and optimism. [via link]. [...]

By: Here Not There » Your Brand, Your Self: Web Identity Coming Of Age? | A journal about the web, design and the business of creativity

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:12:09 +0000

[...] The always on Eric Karjaluoto on Privacy and Community at the Ideas on Ideas blog: ” Personally, however, I’m not particularly concerned with the division of private and [...]

By: James

James — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:42:47 +0000

Having been on the internet since the days of BBS' and GEnie, I've seen a lot come & go. One thing that is proven true over, and over, and over again.

The Wisdom of Crowd is about as reliable as George "Dubnuts" Bush with a blank check... well, OK, sorry to get political. Those who think the Wisdom of the Crowd works need look no further than Digg.com.

And maybe it's because I have been around for so long and seen human nature at work on the Web that I don't trust ANY PERSON or COMPANY. EVER! Especially when they have a privacy policy posted. That simply tells me that they have bothered to post it because it provides them with the legal loopholes to abuse the information.

In any case, great article Eric!

By: mel

mel — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:47:39 +0000

Great post Eric!
I applaud you for doing hiring to a culture - it's so important for everyone involved. If that requires a look on Facebook, then so be it. Funny enough, just *yesterday* I spoke to an old manager on mine who was telling me that he was working on a engine to look up information on existing employees for work on projects! I thought it was a great way to use social networks and I no doubt, believe we'll see more of this kind of use from employers in the future...

By: Steven Clark

Steven Clark — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:48:02 +0000

Interesting discussion. I see your point about it being a mirror, too.

It brings to mind Clay Shirky's Harvard talk about his new book Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive/events/2008/02/shirky

To quote him "A society that has an Internet is a different kind of society than a society that doesn’t, just as a society that had a printing press was a different kind of a society than a society that didn’t." Clay Shirky.

I think you're on the same page.

By: Soziale Netze und Privatsphäre « KOPIS.DE

Soziale Netze und Privatsphäre « KOPIS.DE — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:16:10 +0000

[...] selbst sehe das nicht so kritisch, ähnlich wie Eric Karjaluoto. Wenn ich nicht möchte, dass Arbeitgeber etwas über mich im Netz lesen, dann sollte ich es dort [...]

By: Ginger Conlon

Ginger Conlon — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:37:25 +0000

Eric,
Fabulous post, as always.
My only comment is around privacy. It's true that in some respects privacy is dead. But there is a huge difference in someone sharing information about themselves in a public forum and in a person or company using that person's private information about them without their consent or knowledge (identify theft, health data, etc.).
I'm all for transparency where there is a benefit (like getting a better sense of the person you're going to be working with or being marketed to in a more relevant manner because I've opted in to share certain information). But I believe that organizations that are privy to customer information should be fully committed to protecting their customers' privacy.

By: Ike

Ike — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:52:49 +0000

Count me among the skeptics of the Wisdom of Crowds. I'm generally an optimist when it comes to human nature, but the WoC is *not* a check on tyranny. It guarantees it, because it wraps majority decisions in a cloak of moral certainty.

There are many things that we've been collectively wrong about in human history. I believe that individuals -- working in their own self-interests -- provide a check and a balance on tyranny. Put them in a group where they can sublimate their own individual ability to reason, and you give them an excuse to be lazy, and not think for themselves.

Wikipedia may be working fine for now, but let's be frank: the internet (and by that I mean the BUSY internet) is populated with early-adopters. This group is hardly representative of the world as a whole, and by virtue of being more open to networking they are more inclined to a Wiki-style model of behavior. These people are achievers, and they will think for themselves.

Do you think that when the number of Wikipedians multiplies by ten that we'll see the same dynamic? Do you believe that a Wisdom of Crowds model will always have the benefit of a Crowd of over-achieving engagers?

Or do you fear the possibility that a few in the crowd will seed opinions in a sinister direction, and push the masses into a nasty agenda? If you think about it, we already HAVE Wisdom of Crowds modeling in our government -- every administration and every individual politician being ruled by the almighty survey and poll.

The crowd is quite often WRONG, and WoC only works with certain types of questions. The only problem is that when your very definitions of "correct" and "incorrect" come to a popular vote, there is no fallback position.

As you say, Eric -- the web is a mirror. There's nothing magical about the Wisdom of Crowds. It will fail us in cyberspace, because it has failed us in meatspace.

That's my pair of pennies...

By: Gels Saby

Gels Saby — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:14:30 +0000

Hi Eric,
These are great reflections, which I find interesting compared to the academic environment I'm working from. Privacy, of course, is a very different issue with us (best illustrated in the ruckus that was the FaceBook Ryerson case) and as the designer for an application being catered to this demographic it's a huge consideration when we start integrating any kind of social feature.

However even in the 'public' sphere, I would argue that despite privacy being non-existent (or at least low priority), it's still a concern - best supporting example that comes to mind is FaceBook's Beacon program, which eventually received enough criticism from the community for Zuckerberg to apologize. But then, this is also proof of the community/organic development creating standards.

Probably most interesting *is* the optimism of social application development, but then, how do you deal with a global community that has all sorts of cultural differences? Where is the line drawn between censorship and anarchy?

Your comments inspired me to write further on the subject, particularly with respect to our own development but it covers some interesting examples outside of academia. Please feel free to participate with us as well!

Cheers :)

By: ETCL: Electronic Textual Cultures Lab

ETCL: Electronic Textual Cultures Lab — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:45:41 +0000

[...] of SmashLab design has just posted some interesting reflections on the state of the social web [article], and although we work strictly in an academic environment, I’d like to add further comment [...]