Comments on: 9 to 5 = average

By: A Structuralist Collective » Blog Archive » 9 to 3

A Structuralist Collective » Blog Archive » 9 to 3 — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:19:51 +0000

[...] recent reply to Eric’s rebuttle to a prickly-commentor brought some thoughts about the work environment [...]

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:36:34 +0000

Thanks Justin--glad to hear!

I really do try to make this as useful of a resource for others as possible. In doing so, I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with my opinions; nevertheless, it's certainly nice when we're all polite with one another. :-)

All the best!

Eric

By: Justin Kropp

Justin Kropp — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:06:58 +0000

Eric - I am a faithful reader of this blog. Sometimes I agree with your ideas and opinions and sometimes I don't, but in both instances I pull something from that conclusion. Something of value. You have a strong personality, I suspect, and so what? I see that as a valuable trait in most industries. With that being said, I agree with your response to Nick and can appreciate your work ethic and willingness to open yourself up here. Keep it up.

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:46:42 +0000

Hi Nick,

I wanted to take a moment to thank you for reading the blog and also comment on your observations.

I'm glad that you have a child and that you're so happy to be a parent. I completely appreciate this, in part because I too have a family. I have a lovely wife and an energetic two year old, both of whom I love to bits. (Incidentally, we're expecting another child in January.)

I love my family and spend every moment I can with them. I don't go to football games or hang out with my pals. I sacrifice such indulgences. I have my family and work, and I concentrate on both wholeheartedly. I bust my ass, because these parts of my life are incredibly important to me.

So, you'll likely understand my irritation by you implying that I'm a poor father. Of course, you're free to hold your own opinion. That being said, I wonder what entitles you to make such suppositions. You've read one whole article of mine; this hardly qualifies you to impugn my character so. Frankly, I find this a little arrogant on your part.

You also note that I'm a prick, which may at times be true. That being said, I work with integrity. Those who work with me seem to believe that I'm a decent person. Additionally, I take a few hours out of my schedule regularly to share any insights I can, here on this blog. Weekly I receive emails from designers noting that they've found something of usefulness here. I don't get anything from this; I just like helping out my colleagues.

And what have you done?

I typically don't make assumptions about others, but given that you've started the trend, why don't I take a stab at it?

My guess is that you're a mediocre designer (at best) and that articles like this touch a bit of a nerve because they ring so true. You know that you've squandered your time when you could have been practicing your craft. You remember all those nights at the pub that resulted in you being hung-over and less-focused the following day. And now you're starting to see that all of that did amount to something.

You see your colleagues getting promoted or starting their own shops and you're stuck in a respectable (but less than spectacular job) somewhere. That being said, you've got a mortgage and car payments, so changing course is no longer an option. You're feeling old and wishing that you mattered a little more, and you fear that the time to do something spectacular may have passed some time ago.

Somewhere along the line, you managed to have kids, and you too experienced that brilliant and life-changing moment that many of us have had, when everything somehow felt different. No one would question this. That being said, most of us don't try to mask our shortcomings with our role as parents as I suspect that you do.

Of course, none of this means much. These are simply my "guesses" at who you are. How accurate was I? Did I do as well as you?

You're pretty content to visit a blog like this, size me up in a few moments, and throw your words around with some abandon. I may be a prick, but I think it's fair to say that your cavalier assumptions about others classify you as a bit of an ass. No, scratch that... an ass who can't spell.

Good luck to you,

Eric

By: Nick

Nick — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:59:29 +0000

People have a passion and people have responsabilities. In most cases if it was easy enough then people would work for themselves. As you mentioned that you would sometimes feel at your most inspired point working till 3am. For others in your company that might be the case also but I wouldn't imagine they can go into your office then. Those who finish at 17:05 will probably not switch off from their tasks and will be mentally thinking about what they can do next or how to make the current better. I am a father and in all honesty if i had a choice of being with my daughter after i had not seen her all day or to work on for you till 7pm and not see her at all that day then i would be home at 17:05. I imagine you as being quite lonely. You don't strike me as having kids or if you do they can't see a lot of you. Nothing in this lifetime is more important than the being that i bring into this world. There wellbeing is No 1. There wellbeing involves being there and making sure they get the all round nourishment they need.
Finally i have come to a conclusion thinking about your words: You are a prick!

By: mia

mia — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:08:48 +0000

I'd also like to add that fostering a habit of 'one up-manship' and trying to prove your worth amongst your employees is ultimately quite unhealthy. Are they producing results? Then leave it at that.

By: mia

mia — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:58:41 +0000

first of all, what potential employee ISN'T going to say that they are passionate? Duh.

second of all. Why should I have to prove my passion for design to anyone? I don't see the point in saying 'oooh i think about design constantly and therefore I am passionate and therefore a great employee'.

You know what? Some people are passionate about LIFE. Their design can either suffer or benefit from that. You can't be prescriptive about what other people should be like. It's pretty rude.

By: dave downing

dave downing — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:39:00 +0000

Honestly, I think most of what you have written is complete crap.

--I have read of resident physicians who work 100 hours a week. Many articles note that lawyers routinely work seven days a week, twelve hours a day. (And frankly, they are lawyers. That can’t be nearly as much fun as being a designer.)--

The lawyers and Doctors I know get paid for that extra time. I have, therefore they are simply perusing money, not passion for their work. Perhaps as the Owner/Principal of the company you get a financial reward the rest of us drones don't that helps fuel your "passion".

--If you are passionate, design should be more fun than other extracurricular activities.--

This is not true. It is possible to have more than one passion. In the winter I'm passionate about skiing, if i ski for 5 hours during the week, and only work 35 hours, I'll be twice as productive and creative than if I work 45 hours. The balance fuels my passion, getting out of the office makes me enjoy my work MORE.

--I don’t particularly like days off. As such, I’ve chosen to immerse myself in design. It’s everything I do. But what about you? Is this really a commitment worth making? Perhaps you have other, more personal needs. Maybe time with your spouse is more important. On the other hand, you might find it more enjoyable to go to concerts and movies. There’s nothing wrong with any of that, and it certainly doesn’t imply that you won’t be a fine designer.--

You might not need that "balance" others need, and that's great for you, but you can't judge others for not living by your rules of passion.

--Do however make your choices accordingly. If this lifestyle suits you, I urge you to seek out a casual studio, or perhaps a firm that doesn’t make it their mission to push every project.--

I work at an office were most of the staff works extra hours, and between 9-5 they are half as productive and caring as me. They take more time off during the day b/c they know they'll be in later. If you can't "push every project" in 37-40 hours a week, it's b/c you aren't able, or you just don't care. Or both.

--Should some reading be suggested, you would likely find the book, and read it in your off-hours.--

And this is exactly why I need to get off at 5pm, so I can have time to read, or immerse myself in culture, or learn more history. All important, but the first thing to go without balance.

And regarding Dave Scott, or so many others who have achieve supposed greatness, there lives outside of their "passion" is usually very sad. Dave may have more balance than others, but so many have no life I would like to follow. Failed relationships, drug/alcohol problems, etc, usually at a greater rate than the rest of society.

I am passionate about life, the design I do, the skiing I do, the biking I do, and having a great relationship with my wife and friends. I don't ever want a friend to feel that my work is more important than them.

I'm currently trying to leave a company that has the attitude of this post.

Cheers.

By: Eric Karjaluoto

Eric Karjaluoto — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:04:54 +0000

Kevin, you are entirely right. No employer should expect people to work for free. Not only is it an issue of ethics, it's the law. I really should stress that we do pay overtime whenever we ask staff to work extra hours.

We also pay above average wages, have benefits packages, go for company-paid lunches every here and there, cover transit passes, et cetera. We spread the jobs out so that everyone has a chance to work on the good stuff; we don't save the fun projects for the partners. We feel these are nice little perks given that we are such a small studio.

Part of my point in this article is that a little give and take isn't a horrible thing. For example, say that a staff member makes a big mistake on a project that either blows a print job or somehow damages the client relationship. In such an instance, wouldn't it be reasonable for that person to put in some hours of their own as a sign of good will? It wouldn't be expected, but any employer would sure appreciate it.

When designers are early in their careers, they often are less than profitable to the companies they work for. Ones that do put in a little extra effort often get a lot back. Their portfolios often show their commitment, and frankly, it's really nice to give them raises for putting in such efforts.

We have one particular staff member who is great. He has been with us for a few years, always puts in a good effort and is a pleasure to be around. I know that our clients are in good hands when he's looking after them. Most of the time he works a standard work week. At the same time, he's open to lending a hand when we're in a pinch. He has grown a lot in his time here and has a strong portfolio as a result. I can't tell you how much we appreciate having him around.

An average effort tends to lead to average results. Putting in a little extra... well, you get the picture. :-)

By: Kevin

Kevin — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:13:06 +0000

Interesting article, but no employer should expect people to work for free. I'll happilly work a bit late if something needs to get out the door, but I'll also try and make sure things are scheduled next time so that problem doesn't happen again.

You posted up a Fast Company article. I recall another excellent article from them regarding NASA's programmers, and the method they use. It seems that if you want to program something great, like sending humans to the moon, then you should probably work 9-5:
http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html